Culture of Empathy Builder: Dave Snyder

In this YouTube video, Edwin Rutsch (Director of the Empathy Center) interviews Dave Snyder about the critical role of empathy in bridging racial and political divides, specifically focusing on Snyder's experiences within a Christian church in Cincinnati, Ohio.

The conversation focuses on how deep, structured listening helps overcome historic segregation, the pushback empathy faces from some theological circles, and practical formats (like Empathy Circles and Braver Angels workshops) designed to bring people with opposing views into productive dialogue.

Executive Summary

Dave Snyder recounts his journey of trying to foster racial and political unity in a historically white, 170-year-old church located in a community that is now 70% Black. Realizing that the congregation was ill-equipped to connect across cultural divides, Snyder initiated small-group dialogue sessions using a structured empathy framework (represented by the acronym DI-RP).

Rutsch and Snyder discuss the definition of empathy, contrasting it with the criticisms of the religious right (such as books like The Sin of Empathy and Toxic Empathy). They agree that empathy does not equal agreement. Instead, empathy is about acknowledging another person's humanity, recognizing their emotions, and deciding they are "worthy of connection." Through structured practices like "Empathy Circles" and political bridging workshops, both advocates argue that deep listening is a prerequisite for the biblical calling of unity and love.

Detailed Interview Outline

I. Introduction and Dave Snyder�s Background [00:01]

LinkedIn Description: Equipping Christians to talk grace, build church unity, and put things right in their communities [00:18].
The Church's History: Snyder belongs to a 170-year-old church in Cincinnati, Ohio, that remained entirely white despite the surrounding neighborhood transitioning to 70% Black in the 1970s [00:51].
The Catalyst for Action: Eight years ago, Snyder invited the church's only five Black elders and deacons for a 3-hour lunch. He listened to their stories of perceived racism and realized the critical need for a structured dialogue to bridge the gap [02:36].

II. Defining Empathy and its Biblical Foundations [09:21]

Edwin Rutsch�s Definition (Holistic Empathy): Grounded in Carl Rogers� active listening. It means sensing into another's experience, being present to hear their thoughts and feelings, and practicing "mutual empathy" where both sides listen to each other [10:07].
Snyder�s Biblical Definition: Snyder points to Romans 12:15 ("rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep") [12:03].
The Example of Jesus: When Lazarus died, Jesus wept with Mary and Martha even though he knew he was about to raise Lazarus. Jesus was not agreeing with their hopelessness; he was feeling their pain [12:32]. Empathy does not imply agreement.

III. Addressing Criticisms of Empathy [13:28]

The Evangelical Pushback: They discuss the rise of anti-empathy rhetoric within the religious right, specifically citing books like The Sin of Empathy (Joe Rigney), Toxic Empathy (Alisa Childers/Allie Beth Stuckey), and Suicidal Empathy (Gad Saad) [09:21], [21:12].
Testing Every Claim: A Christian critic argued that listening to stories of racism without immediately challenging them violates biblical instructions to "test everything." Snyder counters that sharing a personal lived experience is not a formal legal accusation requiring two witnesses; it's a personal story [14:36].
Selective vs. Universal Empathy: Rutsch addresses the criticism that progressives only empathize with their own side [50:18]. He argues that true "holistic empathy" requires extending empathy to everyone in a group�even political opponents.

IV. The "DI-RP" Small Group Experience [39:53]

Snyder explains the exact structured framework they use in their church�s small groups to teach empathy:

D � Decide: Decide that the other person is worthy of connection [40:02].
I � Inquire: Ask active listening questions to identify the specific emotion the other person is feeling [40:15].
R � Recall: Recall a time in your own life when you felt that same emotion (even if the underlying situation was totally different) [40:29].
P � Play it out: Respond to them based on what you needed when you felt that emotion [41:00].
Meeting Format: Groups of 10 or fewer, led by one white facilitator and one facilitator of color. Everyone gets exactly 2 minutes to share their lived experiences using "I" statements [41:16].

V. Overcoming Homogeneous Echo Chambers [31:06]

The Problem in American Churches: Snyder references researcher Corey Edwards, noting that attending a homogeneous church makes Christians statistically less motivated to dismantle structural racism. Echo chambers insulate and reinforce natural racial biases [31:24].
Implementing Structural Diversity: Snyder's church decided that any church ministry requesting funds must be fully integrated [34:34]. They also put new elders and deacons through the empathy small groups, preventing defensive "gut reactions" when issues of race arise in leadership meetings [36:03].

VI. Scaling up to the Political Divide [21:11]

Braver Angels Workshops: Snyder details his involvement with Braver Angels in Cincinnati, running "Red/Blue" workshops to respectfully discuss heavily polarized propositions [21:11], [37:14].
The Empathy Tent: Rutsch shares his experience taking a physical "Empathy Tent" to highly volatile political rallies (e.g., in Berkeley, CA) to facilitate mutual listening between opposing groups (such as Trump supporters and Antifa counter-protesters), resulting in unexpected connections [52:19].

VII. Conclusion: Feeling Heard is Feeling Loved [53:55]

Snyder quotes: "Feeling heard is so close to feeling loved that most people cannot tell the difference." [53:55]
They agree to organize a joint, recorded Empathy Circle online in the future to model bridging social and political divides [46:42].

Edwin Rutsch and Dave Snyder discussed the role of empathy in bridging racial and political divides, especially within the church. Dave shared his journey in a historically white church that became more diverse, highlighting the challenges and the importance of empathy in building unity. They explored definitions of empathy, with Edwin referencing Carl Rogers and the Empathy Circle practice, and Dave connecting empathy to biblical teachings. They addressed criticisms of empathy, such as those in "The Sin of Empathy," and discussed the need for dialogue and mutual understanding. Dave described the small group experiences his church uses to foster empathy and racial understanding, while Edwin explained how structured empathy practices can help in conflict mediation and bridge-building efforts. Both agreed on the transformative power of feeling heard and the potential of empathy to heal divisions.

The transcript appears to contain only brief, fragmented audio captures from Edwin without any substantive discussion content. No decisions, alignments, or action items were discussed that could be summarized.

Edwin Rutsch, Director of the Empathy Center, interviewed Dave Snyder about empathy in religious contexts. Dave shared his experience with racial integration at his church in Cincinnati, which had historically been all-white but began diversifying in the 1970s as the community became 70% black. Eight years ago, Dave initiated conversations with Black elders and deacons about their experiences with perceived racism, leading to a small group experience focused on building relationships across cultures and learning empathy skills. The discussion highlighted how empathy training helped bridge divides within the congregation and challenged traditional Christian approaches to listening and understanding.

Dave shared his journey of discovering empathy through workshops and small group experiences, which led him to write essays and eventually leave his corporate job to focus on sharing these insights about race and empathy with Christian audiences. Edwin defined empathy based on Carl Rogers' work, explaining both basic empathy (sensing into someone's experience) and holistic empathy (mutual empathy between people). Dave responded positively to this definition and explained his own understanding using biblical examples from Romans 12:15 and Jesus's reaction at Lazarus's tomb, emphasizing the importance of entering into others' experiences without necessarily agreeing with their perspectives.

Dave expressed concern about a ministry leader who criticized empathy and listening to people of color's experiences without understanding the concept of empathy as not requiring agreement. Edwin explained the empathy circle practice as a method to ground and demonstrate empathy through structured speaking and listening turns, ensuring everyone has an opportunity to share and be heard. The discussion highlighted the importance of understanding and practicing empathy, particularly in intercultural and interfaith contexts.

Edwin and Dave discussed the importance of holistic empathy in conflict mediation, emphasizing the need to fully listen to others and decide that they are worthy of connection. They compared their approaches to empathy circles, which welcome everyone and allow free speech. Edwin mentioned critics of empathy who refuse to engage in dialogue, contrasting this with the empathy group's willingness to listen. Dave shared his experience with Braver Angels, highlighting their efforts to address political division within the church to build racial solidarity.

Edwin and Dave discussed the role of empathy in addressing social divides, highlighting the importance of structured dialogue and the Empathy Center's collaboration with Braver Angels Network. They addressed criticisms of empathy, emphasizing that empathizing with harmful individuals does not mean condoning their actions but can help prevent future harm and foster healing. Edwin suggested transforming prisons into empathy training centers, and both agreed on the value of building connections and understanding across different groups to address societal issues.

Dave discussed challenges in building bridges across racial and political divides in church settings, citing research by Corey Edwards that shows Christians are twice as likely to believe racist narratives if they attend homogeneous churches. He explained their church's intentional efforts to create integrated ministries and inclusive programs, including requiring funded ministries to be integrated and organizing ethnic meals and lunches together. Dave reported significant progress through small group experiences for new elders and deacons, which helped facilitate more constructive discussions about racial topics in leadership meetings, though they are still working on addressing political divides through workshops with Braver Angels.

Edwin invited Dave to participate in an Empathy Circle practice and offered to host an online session with 4-6 participants, including Dave. Dave described his congregation's approach to empathy through small group experiences using the D-I-R-P method, where participants share their lived experiences in groups of 10 or less with facilitators of different races. The discussion concluded with Edwin suggesting they explore the topic of empathy within the Christian community, particularly in response to criticisms raised in "The Sin of Empathy" book, with Dave agreeing to review the author's arguments the following week.

Role of empathy in bridging racial and political divides, especially within the church.